Category Archives: Mariners

Posts dealing with the Mariners

Most Hated Mariner

Recently we did a NOT Y2010M! post. In it, Andrew compiled an entertaining line-up of dreadful players to suit up for the M’s in the past few years. I threw up 5 times after reading it. And again just now when I pasted it…

Catcher: Miguel Olivo
1st Base: Richie Sexson
2nd Base: Jose Vidro
3rd Base: Jeff Cirillo
SS: Yuni
LF: Willie Bloomquist
CF: Wladimir Balentin
RF: Brad Wilkerson
SP: Carlos Silva
RP: Miguel Batista
Manager: John McClaren

This got me thinking, heading into 2010, with most of the bad names gone, who is your least favorite Mariner? Let’s run a poll and find out! In case you care, my vote is for Garrett Olson, who I’m sure is a nice guy and all, but good lord he is bad. Everything is between 80 and 89 mph, nothing moves too well, and he walks a lot.

-Dan

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3 Topics (but none deserving a full post)

Here’s your 3 for 1 special. 3 topics of food for thought, minus the food. Enjoy.

Ackley for A-Gon
A couple days ago on 710 ESPN, Kevin Calabro was making his argument for an Adrian Gonzalez to Seattle trade. His case was that this team plus Adrian Gonzalez would be an American League favorite to make the World Series, and likely a contender next year as well. The price is never too high for glory days like Calabro was painting, and no one could disagree with the excitement that A-Gon in Seattle would bring. But while most of us talk about a package including the likes of Saunders, Carp, Lopez, Fields, Halman, Triunfel, French, Matthew Long…Calabro says give em’ Dustin Ackley if that’s what it takes. At first, it sounds ridiculous, but the more I think about it, the more intrigued I am. Here’s why.

In Ackley, you get high upside (he was the #2 pick overall last year) and the potential down the road of say, Chase Utley at 2nd base. He is also under team control for 4-6 more years. In Gonzalez, you get a stud, who has already reached the potential we can only dream that Ackley may achieve. But he is only under team control for 2 more years. Money is not much of a factor because Gonzalez will only make $10.25MM from 2010-11. What is a factor is the value over replacement that Ackley and Gonzalez may provide. Ackley might be the starting 2nd baseman in 2011, and that’s probably an upgrade over Lopez. The same can be said for Gonzalez over Kotchman at first base. But just how big would the upgrade be this year, when essentially all the stars would be aligned to go for it with the Cliff Lee and A-Gon additions? Here’s what CHONE projections say.

’10 Dustin Ackley- minor leagues, +0 WAR
’10 Jose Lopez- 19 hr, 89 rbi, .283 avg, +2.6 WAR
’10 Adrian Gonzalez- 33 hr, 98 rbi, .280 avg, +4.2 WAR
’10 Casey Kotchman- 10 hr, 58 rbi, .265 avg, +0.9 WAR

In 2010, Ackley won’t be a factor, so losing him, at least for this season, is not going to impact the wins total. In future years, his value will likely only increase. A-Gon could add 23 hr, 40 rbi, and about 3.3 wins more than Kotchman, and both play terrific defense. Is that enough to enter “go for it” mode and give up Ackley? Probably not, but whose to say Gonzalez wouldn’t re-sign and stay in Seattle just as long as Ackley would? And what if Ackley doesn’t develop and reach his potential? In Gonzalez, you have a player who already has reached his potential.

Ultimately, there are too many unknowns to pull the trigger on this deal, though I’d bet San Diego would take a deal that included Ackley. If we knew Cliff Lee would be in Seattle next year as well, then maybe you risk it all to have 2 years of win-now baseball. But Lee past this year is no guarantee, and Ackley in the next five years is too enticing to trade for what may only be two years of Gonzalez. The Mariners aren’t quite into full win-now mode so mortgaging the future with the team’s top prospect would not be wise. But come mid-July if a bidding war is on for Gonzalez and the M’s, sitting atop the AL West, don’t have a package to make the deal, maybe Ackley becomes realistic bait.

What if…
I love day dreaming about “what if” scenarios related to my Seattle sports teams. In my mind there are two types of “what if” questions; negative outcome and positive outcome. The negative scenarios seem to stick with me longer. What if Howard Schultz had sold the team to a Seattle group stead of the Okies? What if a couple penalties went our way in Super Bowl 40? What if the Seahawks had kept Hutch. What if the Mariners had drafted Lincicum over Morrow? What if Holmgren, Leiweke and Paul Allen had gotten along? Of course there are positive “what if” scenarios too, where knowing the eventual outcome makes me smile. What if Ichiro had ended up with Los Angeles? What if the ’95 team never made their August push, would baseball be in Seattle today?

The two scenarios I can’t seem to get over are both “what if” questions regarding the Mariner’s 2008 season. What if Bavasi hadn’t made the Bedard trade? And what if the Mariners hadn’t swept Oakland to end the year? My theory is that if Bedard had not been acquired, the team would have likely still sucked, because Adam Jones, Chris Tillman and George Sherrill weren’t going to make up for many more wins than Bedard provided in ’08. And if we had not swept the A’s to end the year, we would have had the #1 pick in ’09, and Stephen Strasburg would be a Mariner today. Based on these two scenarios, our rotation going forward for at least the next 3 years would have likely been Felix, Strasburg, and Chris Tillman. Wow.

NHL vs. NBA
If I had it my way, Seattle would have the NHL, NBA, and a regular PGA tour stop. As it is, we have none. In the future, I think we will have one or two of these, and I’m beginning to want the NHL more than the others. My wife is a huge Red Wings fan, so I’ve watched more hockey since getting married 3 years ago than I did the previous 20 years. Playoff hockey is amazing. So is Olympic hockey, like the world just saw. A new arena is necessary for the NHL or NBA, so this dream is still years away, but similar to how the Sounders have been received, I think a hockey team would be a sell-out machine as well. In my opinion, it’s more entertaining than the NBA, and while a new arena could bring both leagues back to Seattle, I’d rather have hockey. Build an arena, and there would be 5 or 6 teams, Phoenix, Nashville, Florida, Tampa bay, Atlanta, to name a few, fighting to get to Seattle first.

-Dan

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NOT Y2010M!

Carlos Silva

Yuniesky Betancourt

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Can You Win Me a Pennant?

I frequently read a Mariners blog called Seattle Sports Insider whose primary author likes to ask a simple question when talking about building a roster: Can I win my next pennant with this player?  It’s really the only question that matters.  It’s also fairly subjective.  Two intelligent people can always disagree about how good a player is or will become, and different people have different ideas on how to put together a team.  Still, I thought I’d run through the Mariners’ roster and give my opinions on where they stand here.  I’ll cover what I expect the 25 man roster to be, along with a few players who might figure prominently in the near future.

Position Players

C Rob Johnson- Yes as a backup.  No as a starter without an incredible amount of improvement.

C Adam Moore- Yes. Here’s where it get tricky.  Some people might always answer no to all prospects.  I’m looking at what we can reasonably expect them to develop into.  If the M’s next pennant is this year, he might be a weak link; in the future, I think he’ll be a solid starter. Continue reading

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Y2010M! Dustin Ackley

I was looking through Baseball America’s Top 100 Prospects list the other day, and sitting at #11 was one Seattle Mariner, Mr. Dustin Ackley.  Number 11 is the highest I remember seeing a Mariner since probably Felix, but truth be told, I was hoping he’d be even a little higher.  The reason for my optimism: Ackley’s hitting, which I had heard the BA guys discuss beforehand on a podcast.  Ackley was their choice for college player of the decade and is touted as maybe the purest hitter to come out of college in quite some time.

For those unfamiliar with baseball scouting, skills are assigned a rating from 20-80, 80 being the top.  I have no idea where they came up with that range.  Skills that are generally rated: hitting (meaning for average), power, speed, defense, arm.  Those are the famous five tools that athletic young Venezuelan outfielders seem to unanimously possess.  Pitchers work a little differently, with grades for individual pitches along with some other areas.  A 50, as you might guess, is considered average.  A player with all 50s is likely a serviceable starter, maybe a utility guy.  As a tool gets closer to 65 or so, a player would approach all-star level, at least with that one tool. The more above average tools, the better.  Some tools stand on their own better while others are more dependent on another tool to help them shine.  80 power with 20 hitting isn’t going to do much, since power needs contact to be effective.  Similarly, 80 speed makes nothing more than a good pinch-runner, if he can’t get on base or catch anything.

BA gave a grade for each player’s best tool in the Top 100 list.  These grades came from the writers’ scouting but was heavily influenced by scouts and coaches they talked to.  There were a handful of 80s awarded, but only two for hitting.  The first was to the player in the #1 slot, Braves mega-prospect Jason Heyward.  The other? Dustin Ackley.  An 80 hit grade for a Mariner prospect is a beautiful number.  There aren’t many players at that level in all of baseball at any time.  We just counted only two in the minors.  The Mariners happen to have another in Ichiro.  You’d add Pujols, Mauer, and maybe a few more:  A-Rod, undoubtedly a few others I’m not thinking of.  The point is, if a player gets an 80 hit grade, scouts see potential batting titles and line-up anchors. An 80 hitter has an elite ability to make contact and translate that contact into production.

Does this mean Ackley, the number two overall pick last year, is destined for MVP awards and the hall of fame?  Certainly not.  Plenty of elite prospects never reach their full potential.  Ackley in particular has concerns about whether he can hit the ball hard enough to be a star, although 22 home runs and a .763 slugging percentage his last year of college, along with a frame that looks like it could add some weight and muscle, seem to indicate at least some power potential.  Some pessimists see Jeremy Reed, a great college and minor league hitter who couldn’t quite cut it in the bigs.  I’m not buying it and think Ackley is on a different level than Reed ever was, but that type of career is possible.  He also grades as a 65 or 70 for speed and is athletic enough to likely end up at second or centerfield, positions where a left handed .330 hitter becomes one of the top players in the league, no matter how much power he has.  By all accounts, Ackley is an extremely hard worker, has great baseball instincts, and an all-around Good Guy (kind of like some other people I know!).

What really excites me about Dustin Ackley is the potential for the Mariners to finally have one of those players who rockets through the minors, comes to the big leagues sooner than expected, and takes the league by storm.  It seems like it’s been years since they’ve had a minor league hitter come up and not struggle in his initial time in the majors.  Ackley is likely to start his first full professional season at AA, maybe AAA if he really impresses this spring, and I think the team would tell you they expect him to be in the bigs in 2011 or later.  I, and I think Mariners’ management, wouldn’t be at all surprised if he comes up not long after the all star break and is one of the Mariners best hitters the rest of the year.  I’m a big fan of having an elite skill in sports (not that I’m unique in this preference).  A player with 55 tools across the board can fill a hole and help a team, but an 80 hitter is someone who can carry you to a pennant.  I haven’t been so excited to see a Mariner minor league hitter reach the majors in a long, long time.

-Matthew

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Y2010M! Casey Kotchman

About a week ago I was hanging out with Dan.  I can’t remember exactly what we were watching but the show started showing highlights of a bunch of first basemen making errors.  Defense at first base is something that is often overlooked, but why?  In today’s baseball world, and even in the generations before us, first base is a position that is used to upgrade offense.  If a guy can hit 40 home runs that would make up for a lack of defensive range at first base.  With this in mind I thought the Mariners would try to acquire a first basemen that would upgrade our offense a couple of notches.  But that didn’t happen, our front office stayed true to their “defense first” mentality.  Ladies and gentleman, I give you Casey Kotchman.

In 2001 Kotchman was selected 13th overall in the Major League Baseball draft by the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim.  He breezed through the Angels farm system and made his major league debut in 2005 as one of the top prospects in the game.  Kotchman went through several injury plagued years but played fairly well in 2007 and 2008.  He was traded to Atlanta at the trade deadline in ’08 and his production fell off as he was dealing with some family issues.  Kotchman was again traded from Atlanta to Boston in 2009.  What was once a very good prospect looked like he’d forgotten how to hit, especially how to hit lefties.  2009 wasn’t his best year, as he posted an OPS of .721 which is somewhat underwhelming for a first basemen.  Through his offensive struggles Kotchman was still seen as one of the best defensive first basemen in baseball.

This offseason he was traded from Boston to Seattle for Bill Hall.  This was an upgrade for the M’s because not many people wanted Mike Carp to be our starting first baseman.  I’ll be the first to admit I was hoping for a little something more at first base initially but the more I think about it the more I like this move.  Kotchman is low-risk, high upside move (meaning he doesn’t cost a lot and has good amount of potential).  His 7.6 UZR rating last year was among the top first basemen in the league.  His range at first base will help make up for Jose Lopez’s lack of range at second base.  And what about his offense?  Who knows, Kotchman might surprise us.  He’s a gap hitter with good plate discipline.  Maybe he’ll rediscover his approach that made him successful in 2007.  If he does, he’ll hit around .300 with and on-base percentage around .370.  If not, he’ll hit around .270 with and on-base percentage around .330.  If the latter happens, he’ll be Ryan Garko’s platoon partner at first base.  Kotchman has had pretty dramatic splits against right and left-handed pitchers the last few years.  Thus, he may play against right-handed pitching while Garko plays against southpaws. 

Truth is, I have no idea what to expect from Kotchman’s offense.  Hopefully he surprises us, much like Gutierrez did last year.  If not, we’ve seen the power of defense.  While a home run may be sexy, a defensive play to stop a run from scoring is worth exactly the same in the long run.  I’m excited to see what Casey will do this year and am fairly optimistic about his performance.  The power of defense is alive and well in Seattle and Kotchman will just add to the best defense in the league.  Lets remember the most remembered error of all time came from a first baseman (Bill Buckner), Kotchman hasn’t made an error in 185 games.

(This doesn’t mean I’m against an Adrian Gonzalez trade at all!)

Andrew

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Team Chemistry, Milton Bradley and Respect

I’ve never been a big believer in team chemistry.  I think it’s important that teammates respect each other and play hard no matter who the guy standing next to him is but I’ve never thought that liking your teammate would make a huge difference in the win/loss column.  In my mind, talent outweighs chemistry like Carlos Silva outweighs Ichiro.  But the Mariners have changed my mind, at least somewhat.

In 2008 the Mariners were a disaster on and off the field.  Maybe the off the field problems were caused by the on-field problems but we’ll never know for sure.  That team limped to a 61-101 record.  The team had absolutely no fun and the fans had no fun watching them.  In 2009, with the addition and subtraction of some players, the Mariners increased their win total by 24.  Obviously they had upgraded on talent; who would say that Franklin Gutierrez isn’t better than J.J. Putz?  But were the additions the team made really worth a 24 win upgrade based on talent alone?  No way.  There are several explanations for this dramatic upgrade.  Should the 2008 team really have lost that many games based on the product that management put on the field?  No but Bill Bavasi didn’t think about things like Jack Z does.  He didn’t think about chemistry.

While last years team was a better product than the 2008 team, they also had a different mindset.  With the leadership of Jr., Sweeney, and of course Wak, the team demanded respect for each other.  There was no more Carlos Silva calling out Ichiro, no more Miguel Batista acting like a moron (well maybe…), no more “every man for himself” attitude.  When a team has a hall-of-famer like Griffey come into the clubhouse and show respect to everyone, even the rookies, the team envelops that attitude.  With that respect comes a feeling of “I need to get my job done because I know my teammates are expecting that of me.”  And once a team comes to that attitude the fun can begin.  Last year the Mariners might have been the most “fun” team I’ve ever seen.  Sure, they didn’t win their division but they laughed, tickled, and shaving-cream pied their way to 85 wins.  They were built on the attitude that management had installed and the chemistry they had got them extra victories. 

Now comes this year with a new challenge.  A one-man wrecking ball coming from Chicago named Milton Bradley.  Bradley has definitely had his share of bad moments.  He was a nightmare with the Cubs last year; a clubhouse cancer that supposedly dragged everyone down with him.  So why did the Mariners get him?  A couple reasons.  One, he was traded for Carlos Silva.  I would’ve traded Carlos Silva for a dead guy (seriously).  Two, the guy can hit.  In 2008, Bradley led the American League in on-base percentage and OPS (on-base plus slugging percentage).  Bradley could be a big addition to the Mariners somewhat weak lineup.  But is he worth the risk of ruining the great chemistry the Mariners have?  Call me crazy, but I don’t see it as that big of a risk.  Bradley continues to mention how great it will be to play alongside one of his heroes, Ken Griffey Jr.  With Jr. as a leader of the clubhouse and already having the respect of Bradley, I think Bradley will fit in just fine.  Milton said yesterday that for the first time in his career he’s looking to have fun this year.  You sir, have come to the right place.  A parade around the field after an 85 win season means that we’ve got one happy baseball team.  Bradley will have his blow ups but I think this team can handle it because of the respect each player is given. 

Last month Matthew and I went to hear Jack Z talk at the USSM/LL event.  He said many insightful things but the main thing I took from it was when he touched on the subject of respect.  He said it was important to remember that these players are human, and for the most part they’re all trying their best.  Just like you should respect your peers, you should respect these players lives.  It was the cliche’ speech that famous people give but this time it wasn’t cliche’, it was fresh and sincere.  He treated a bunch of nerdy fans and bloggers the way humans are supposed to treat each other.  He never spoke poorly of anyone, even Carlos Silva.  He showed respect to all people.  This is the kind of attitude the Mariners have now and the kind of attitude the Mariners will have regardless of Milton Bradley being on the team or not.

Andrew

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Y2010M! Jack Wilson

It’s been a long time since Omar Vizquel was a Mariner.  Traded after the 1993 season to Cleveland, Omar was, at the time and up until a few years ago, the best defensive shortstop in baseball, the best since Ozzie Smith and on the very short list for the best in the history of baseball.  I’ll always remember a story on him, I believe in Sports Illustrated, where he and the writer played catch and Omar never once caught the ball in his glove.  With each throw, he would let the ball hit the heel of his mitt and deflect it directly into his throwing hand.  I tried this many times, with much less success.  He did things every game that no one could believe.  His bat eventually became a minor asset, but even before that, he would have started for all but a small handful of teams any given year.  After he retires in the next few years, it shouldn’t be long before he’s in the hall of fame.

Yuniesky Betancourt at first showed similar glove skills to Vizquel, and looked like he would hit more as well.  And everyone knows what happened from there.  He got slow, or fat or lazy or some combination thereof, started making lazy throwing mistakes, and deteriorated with the bat.  His 2009 line in 60ish games before being traded: .250/.278/.330.  No one was sad to see him go.

Jack Wilson came to the Mariners in July 2009 and promptly went on the disabled list for the rest of the year.  In the 30 or so games he played, he looked Yuni-ish with the bat and Omar-like with the glove, and that’s about what we should expect this year.  When on the field, Wilson is probably the top defensive shortstop in baseball, or close to it.  Acrobatic but steady, he’ll be a joy to watch, as long as he can stay on the field.  With the bat, I think the best we could really hope for is something like .265/.325/.400, and that’s probably best case scenario, except for maybe the batting average.

So why am I happy he’s on the team?  For one, there are no other options.  Shortstops are at a premium in baseball right now.  The team surely searched hard for a replacement, and the extension Wilson signed shows how few options there are.  When Jack Wilson can get 2 years and $10 million, it’s clear the days of an A-Rod, Jeter, or Garciaparra arriving seemingly every year have ended.  Those three skewed our view of shortstops significantly.  It used to be a shortstop was the heart of the defense, stopping everything within 50 feet of him, and any offense he provided was a bonus.  This formula worked for years.  Those of us who grew up with the A-Rod generation expect our shortstops to hit like MVPs and still win Gold Gloves, and it’s just not going to happen much.  On a potentially offense-starved team like the Mariners, it’s hard seeing a regular who offers so little with the bat.  Shortstop is the one position, though, where if I can’t have Hanley Ramirez, I would much rather take Jack Wilson over a guy who hits more but defends less.  He’ll make Jose Lopez look better, he’ll make the pitchers look better, and he’ll captain the defense like Adrian Beltre did the last few years.  As long as he can stay on the field fairly regularly, Jack Wilson is the least of the Mariners’ problems and one the better reasons to watch them play.

-Matthew

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